EVSE - custom for solar

It could well be that renting a holiday car might eventually cost little enough (comparatively speaking) that that would be the way to go.

I can imagine that at some point, you could probably do away with the ICE vehicle, or you could even justify making the EV the “nicer car” because you will replace your long distance travel with a rental. Electrical vehicles will become more affordable, probably not because they will be cheaper, but because everything else will become so much more expensive. Then you’ll reach a point where it might be cheaper to rent a vehicle than own one.

I already apply that logic to bakkie-ownership: Why drive a Hilux 365 days a year (at 12km/liter tops) when the RAV4 does 95% the same thing, has enough space, a much better ride quality, 16km/liter fuel consumption, perfectly capable of scaling the pavement/sidewalk at school… and renting a trailer is R200/day :slight_smile:

I expect that in time most households will replace their second vehicle with an EV, because many people already have the situation I have: We use only the nicer car for the long distances.

I want an EV… but I cannot justify spending first-car money on second-cars. That is my problem :slight_smile:

2 Likes

The way I see the ownership model of cars going in the future: People will own EVs (as a first car) for city driving, people will rent ICE vehicles for long distance traveling. This leaves the maintenance, insurance etc. all with the rental company, and you only pay for “what you need, when you need it”.

Even after taking profits into account, should still be cheaper than owning the long distance vehicle only to drive it for a small fraction of your annual trips. BUTTTT, this is also a YMMV point.

However, I can’t see SA coming to this soon. Firstly, the EVs will have to be locally manufactured because otherwise it will just be too expensive. Secondly, we need a stable grid for this to work. Period. EVs will put an immense strain on the electricity grid. People coming home after a day’s of work, all plugging in at the same time as the stove going on, geysers being used, etc.

At the moment we “import” the energy needed for travelling, with EVs we’ll have to manufacture it locally, using the same failing infrastructure behind loadshedding.

That is a good point. The other day I was looking at the new Corolla Cross model. Not for buying, more out of curiousity. It appears in the same class as the C-HR (size wise), so I wondered what problem that car is supposed to solve?

It occurred to me some days later. The C-HR is imported. The Corolla Cross is manufactured locally. The C-HR starts at 410k, the Corolla Cross at 350k (that’s a substantial saving). The Corolla Cross makes more peak power, uses less fuel, has more lugguage space, has the same wheel base, same service plan, even the same size wheels. And in some markets you get an AWD model (of course not in SA).

I’m not sure if it is totally down to being manufactured locally, but that is my guess.

You mean we need to manufacture locally again. Optimal Energy Joule - Wikipedia

I remember seeing the prototypes are HiTech automotive back in the day. It was impressive what they put together considering the times but it seems that most of the projects they were working on were constantly seeking investment.

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/meet-wuling-mini-evs-smaller-yet-pricier-sibling-the-nano-ev/ar-AAP2IJe

https://insideevs.com/news/435826/gm-wuling-hong-guang-mini-ev-china/

THAT makes a lot of sense … cheaper than a EV addition to an ICE vehicle I recon.

2 Likes

The mini EV might look cheap but it is actually a status symbol that says look at me “I have solar and a second car”. :wink:

1 Like

I’ve been thinking the “Range Extender” option is quite good. That’s where your car is fully electric, but they stick a 0.8L in there which can only charge the batteries, sized exactly right to do so most efficiently, without any of the other fancy bits that you need to get varying power levels out like you’d do for driving.

Like using a Multiplus to load a generator at exactly 80% :slight_smile:

They’re not really popular, but could work for a large country like ours or where you have minimal infrastructure between cities.

BMW used to have one in the i3. They improved the battery and subsequent models dropped the Rex option.

In many European countries they also limit the range extender in software (you cannot just carry a jerry-can with you) in order to attain a suitably low emissions number.

I’d take the PHEV over the range extender. It is more efficient, with the power going directly into the gearbox instead of round trip via a charger.

How would this charger know when there is excess solar which it can then use to bump up your car battery?

It has / can use an external energy meter (the harvi) at the main breaker which communicates via wireless or an RS485 connection.

It’s very similar to the energy meter used for ESS in Victron systems.

Seeing people waste money on cars amazes me.
I also know someone that owns a Land Cruiser 79, but he only goes offroading maybe 10 days a year on a trip to Botswana, I remember calculating that just with the annual insurance payments alone he could rent one from Avis when he needs a Land Cruiser and have a much more comfortable (And cheaper!) vehicle the other 355 days of the year.

1 Like

Would it not then require you to be pushing back to grid, which most people dont (in SA)

There’s a couple of configs you can use.

“Extra power” can mean 63A breaker - house ~= 20A / 10A / 50A available over time. In that case, your car will charge as fast as it can without tripping your main breaker. (63A => 13.8kW, cars can easily charge at 7kW, not leaving a lot left over.)

If you have solar, “extra power” can mean exactly what you said.

Remember that most grid-tied systems over the world used to just feed everything back. That was the major reason you installed it, saving electricity, but as importantly, getting paid for your feedback. Scaling back production is relatively new. In AUS (some states or all, not sure) there is now a requirement that feed-in be limitable by the utility itself as operational needs arise, probably via a ripple device, such as we use for geysers. Your grid-tied inverter will have an input which will control feed-in. I’m unsure how exactly it works, but could be a 0-10V input or 4-20ma input which then controls the output based on setup params, similar to the car PWM mentioned above. (Not to go on too far a tangent, but these are interesting too: the cheap inverters just scale back their own production blindly, the better ones measure at the main breaker and scale that point.)

So, given ^, in most places “extra power” will mean anything extra produced by solar, which the harvi will measure and tell the zappi to consume. “Keep this point at zero” applying to the main breaker.

In SA, where you’re probably not pushing back to the grid at all, i.e. we rather scale back, it becomes tricky. Putting a harvi and a ET112 next to each other will just make the harvi never see the extra power, as it scales down before it can be seen. If you could have them offset a bit, “fighting” each other, that could work, but would be cumbersome.

Coming back to the start of this thread, IF you had an EVSE you could externally control (via RS485 / Modbus / Wifi / etc) AND you could determine “extra” yourself, you could do the same.

But a Victron-blessed EVSE makes that a lot easier, obviously. Zappi is very popular in the UK (maybe rest of Europe too?), so a first-party integration might be possible to Victron equipment, similar to the Fronius integration. Or the Victron-made EVSE does exactly this, but options are nice.

(FWIW, the Fronius integration is so strong, that the companies have a support agreement with each other: both Victron and Fronius will provide support for a combined system themselves, without first blaming the other guy. Pretty sweet for the customer.)

Actually spotted this video just now regarding the Harvi & Zappi specifically. These two guys were sports commentators in a previous life.

Our “loin conductor”… yeah that’s a British accent. Not sure which part… but unmistakable :slight_smile:

I’m thankful for the videos, but the whole premise is weird to me… So your sparky’s just chillin’ on your stoep making Youtube videos about the stuff they put in your house?

@JacoDeJongh Have you started making TikToks yet?

What is TikTacs?

I love making vids about stuff I find interesting, but only for my family and close friends. Normally involves animals and insects of some kind…

Once I almost cut my finger off using a baby grinder with a wood cutting disc. I thought it was interesting. I send a video of the mess I made to my best friend even before I got in the car to go see k medical assistance. From conversations some time after the incident, I gathered it wasn’t as interesting to him…

Making videos for the public domain is not on my 100 most wanted things to do List…

1 Like

Here’s a guy sticking a Raspberry Pi inside a Tesla Wall Connector (it’s been discontinued, but the idea holds).

Is there an easy way in Venus to get “available power”? I mean you could just try to pull and see what goes negative, but ESS should already know this?

I have to share what I came across today. I pulled into a parking at an electrical wholesale and saw the following:

I saw the petrol cap is not standard and decided to wait for the owner. He was a bit in a hurry, but after a few direct questions he warmed up a bit and decided to show more. (For the record, I asked permission to take photos)

Under the Hood:


The electric motor is directly mounted on the gearbox. All protection and one battery bank in the front and another bank where the back seat use to be. A solar charging plug next to the number plate, and a standard EV charging plug where the Petrol cap use to be:

I have asked the owner if he would consider joining us and tell us more about this project. I gathered he isnt a real forum guy, although he belongs to a whatsapp group for EV conversions.

Why i though this is relevant. He said we dont have an idea how many of these are running in SA, so I guess charging stations is already needed. He visited the electrical wholesale today to buy the last equipment he needs to mount a 3kva Multi and a Cerbo in the Golf so he can power loads in his house from his car.

I truly enjoyed listening to him today… Lets hope he makes a turn some time…

6 Likes

What about TikShok?