Tough to answer this and since I have a relationship with the team at Hubble (though don’t use a lot of their batteries), I will not answer the way you want.
What I will ask you to do is find the thread where there was an extensive comparison and discussion of the more popular batteries for Victron on this forum and consider that thread as a steer.
Bottom line when choosing a battery:
Quality Product with a Credible Warranty
Long term support
To note if you use with Victron, please do not try use it without the CloudLink. Just pay the extra and get the CloudLink for stable function with Victron. Can’t comment on other brands of inverter - I’m a one trick pony.
That was my list. To be clear – and because I also have a relationship with ALL those brands – merely making the list is a good thing The “pecking order” is completely subjective and it also changes over time.
Some of the items lower down is also hard to pin down. SolarMD and BlueNova for example. They make really really respectable products and have been in the market for over a decade by now.
Let’s put it this way: Stay away from batteries NOT on that list
There is a good reason why no one uses NMC in-home batteries. And yes you can say Tesla, but that is because of their automotive background. Your house is not a car. Tesla also won’t use NMC in any of their bigger utility batteries and in general, are moving away from NMC.
This was a tounge in cheek thread, because I had literally been advised by these guys I know that the Hubble is the best and I must get it. I (and I suspect they) don’t know much so I just wanted to get some facts.
What is this?
I think lithium iron phosphate? What does that mean though? I’m assuming this is newer tech? I have a quote for Freedom WON LiFePo4 on the system I’m looking at. They seem expensive though!
Both are types lithium batteries. NMC (Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt) LFP (LiFePO4 / Lithium Iron(Fe) Phosphate)
NMC batteries typically have 3.7V per cell while LFP have 3.2V per cell.
NMC would be what you find in your phone, notebook, powerbank, etc. while LFP is moslty used in solar or large utility batteries. 3.2V LFP is also close to 2x 1.5V so it is much easier to use as a replacement battery for alkaline or lead acid battery replacements.
NMC has a higher energy density per weight, but is more flamabile.
LFP is a bit less flamabile and has double or more charge cycles than NMC (so it last longer before it needs to be replaced)
To get back to your Hubble question.
Many of the Hubble batteries use NMC cells while most other batteries use LFP cells. But as stated Hubble also has LFP batteries now. So if your friends say that Hubble is the best you can just ask them if they have the NMC of LFP versions (normally the conversation will stop there as most users do not know that), but you now also have the details for the differences to have that conversation as well.
I think they have actually come a long way and I’m surprised that they are still in existence. I would still not use them though because of the stories and issues people had initially and the way hubble handled it.
I also think a lot of the issues is because the other forum deleted so much of negative comments about hubble because they were pushing them. The people that saw that, stay clear of them. It also means that you will not find too many negative comments about them.
One other important point is that they change models relatively often and new ones are not backward compatible with old. They had the x range, then the AM2 and then the am5 within like 3-4 years. If I compare to pylontech, the us2000 / 3000 and then the c versions and the up5000 are all compatible. So if you buying once off without planning to expand, you will be fine but for me, who started with 2 batteries and added along the way, it would be a problem.
And if my remembered “facts” don’t completely escape me, the NMC packs are more affordable, so that’s what many people end up getting. The NMC packs are also rated for 1C discharge while typically an LFP battery is rated for 0.5C or maybe 0.7C.
(What does that mean? Well, C is short for “capacity”, so if the bank has 100Ah, and you discharge it at 100A, that is a 1C discharge rate, and if you discharge it at 50A, that is 0.5C, etc).
Because of the higher discharge rate, it means you can get away with a smaller battery, often half the size, and for the cost conscious who wants to buy the smallest pack to get through maybe 2 hours, yet for some inexplicable reason still want a 5kVA inverter… it is often the best compromise. At least in a short-term money way.
But that being said, Hubbles are not half the price of their competitors even though they are using an inferior technology for home use. At their price point, there are much better options available. And this isn’t even taking into account the Cloudwhatever that you need to buy in order to get support for all the issues.
But, I’ll give them one thing, their marketing is amazing. They have sold a lot of units at a great margin for what is a Chinese white-label battery.
Just go this in … if it has any effect on decisions.
BUD GROUP ACQUIRES HUBBLE LITHIUM AND LAUNCHES NEW ENERGY SOLUTIONS PLATFORM
We are thrilled to share some incredible news that marks a new chapter in our journey. Effective from 1st March 2023, Hubble Lithium has been acquired by the Bud Group, integral to the launch of Bud’s Energy Solutions Platform.
The acquisition is a good strategic fit for the Bud Group in a high growth industry and will enable the Bud Group to actively participate in the various renewable energy opportunities in South Africa. With this partnership, Hubble Lithium is now equipped with even greater resources and expertise to service you better in South Africa and sub-Saharan.
On joining the Bud Group, we remain deeply committed to maintaining the entrepreneurial spirit and passion that has been a driver for Hubble Lithium’s success. With the support of our talented team and the Bud Group’s extensive network, we are confident that this acquisition will accelerate the growth of our business and present exciting opportunities for our products and brand.
Thank you for your unwavering support and trust in Hubble Lithium. We are excited about this new chapter and remain dedicated to offering you exceptional energy solutions and service.
To add a few comments to this Tread. I found a lot of great guys in this form with a lot more experience that I appreciate.
But for my sins or my learning I Recently had an installation WIth an AM -5 that went sour.
So from my own and my friend’s systems, the biggest problem I found with the bubble is their BMS communication.
Let’s start By saying it looks like they have sorted the problem so I will go easy but it was a hard road. Well, I agree about the comment Hubble is more of a marketing company than a Battery company.
Even after putting all evidence, their support kept trying to blame something on me and negate their warranty. Things got sorted when I managed to land the info higher up the chain. I do understand there are plenty out there that don’t know what they doing and mess support around but when someone is willing to engage maybe it’s good to listen.
On another note, I don’t have the time with the batteries yet but under all my trouble when I removed the BMS comms from the setup the actual batteries were all still working.
So wrapping up I would really Say if you going to spend the extra look around. And Read that whole warranty if it looks enticing but we should always do that anyway !
one other comment from other explosive experiences I only go LFP( not related to Hubble )