Solar panel theft

There is. Voters need to vote with their brains, be educated on matters pertaining to politics, and not vote on an empty stomach in desperation, or because of lifelong indoctrination, or not voting, as a one-rule-party for 28+ years is not a good idea anywhere. Corruption will start.

That said, we live in Africa, and changes happen very slowly here.

That is an extremely tall order.

As a child I went on many mission trips in Namibia, ironically I was always in charge of something technical, like keeping generators fueled up and running. My destiny was calling a long time ago… Anyway. The one thing that came up again and again was that you cannot preach to a hungry man.

You can study all the world’s religions, and that’s a theme that just runs through all of them: Food. Christmas? Food. Eid? Food. Diwali? Food. Rosh Hashana, Sukot, you name it… food!

Therefore it is no surprise that politics don’t work unless there is food.

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And another derail, or maybe not… Let me attempt to crystallise this a bit…

If you clever, you create a dependency on the state. This in turn is the voting lever, so the dependents vote for the state. Me thinks we have currently more than half of the populace on some form of a grant. And the best part is… wait for it… You use Tax monies to do this. Guess where that Tax is from, not your voters :blush:

Groetnis

Some tall orders in that response. How are you going to educate and not voting on and empty stomach!! These two are things which I find are going to be tough challenges.

Yes we can see the problem of who pays the taxes and who gets to vote. Not sure that paying tax should be used as a criteria to vote, that will not change things.

Nope that will never happen, it’s just the irony man. Screams of racism and unfairness will echo worldwide…

Groetnis

As per the movie “Blood Diamond” TIA.

I agree. The people who advocate for this sort of rule are also the people who pay tax, ie the people who are in a position to be taxed. The one-man-one-vote type of democracy was invented precisely to avoid situations where those with the power (read Money) makes laws that keep them (and their friends, again read Money) in power. However problematic the divide is between the support from the majority vs the funders, going down this route will make things worse, not better.

And we need to begin here…

Literacy in SA


Groetnis

In my younger ultra libertarian days I thought that would be a wonderful idea, heck I even thought that making votes weighted (Not just qualifying to vote) based on some arbitrary conditions like : Tax paid, social contributions etc would be the perfect way of fixing the ills of democracy.
Then much like @plonkster pointed out I quickly realized this system would also be ripe for exploitation, because once you reach the : In power status , you could craft a system that could keep you there perpetually.

Let me quote myself here. I was not advocating for a change in who is allowed to vote. Just pointing out that Tax payers money was used to pay grants to 50% or so of the population and nobody paying tax is receiving the benefits.

Besides, it’s a nice way to buy votes instead of education and employment, earning your keep and then voting. This way is a sure thing for the current socialists, it’s a win win for them.

Groetnis
PS: @GRO

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Little thread derail incoming :stuck_out_tongue:

Its true SA has a little “Welfare state” vibe but its not nearly as bad as people think it is, yes SASSA has 18 Million people receiving some form of grant (~30% of the population)
SASSA had a annual budget of R205B in 2021 (Lets say 13B USD) compared with our GDP at 419B USD we spent about 3% of our GDP on social services.

But compared to developed nations like the US that spent 4.9% of their GDP on social security in 2021 we are not too generous, but for a African nation we sure are up there though.
The king of the welfare state, well I guess it depends on various definitions and what constitutes public spending is arguably France.
And with a unemployment rate less than 10% its hard for me to draw the simple conclusion that grant money = people not wanting to work, if it was really that simple France would have rivaled us in unemployment figures, this again reinforces my belief that most people would rather work (even for minimum wage) at R4.2K per month than sit at home and receive 1/10 of that for no work.

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You were now taking the grants just Ito SASSA. There is free medical, free schooling. free electricity and free water to name just a few.

Quote from Stats SA:
According to the Quarterly Labour Force Survey (QLFS) for the first quarter of 2022, the unemployment rate was 63,9% for those aged 15-24 and 42,1% for those aged 25-34 years, while the current official national rate stands at 34,5%.

Although the graduate unemployment rate remains relatively low in South Africa compared to those of other educational levels, unemployment among the youth continues to be a burden, irrespective of educational attainment. Year-on-year, the unemployment rate among young graduates (aged 15-24 years) declined from 40,3% to 32,6%, while it increased by 6,9 percentage points to 22,4% for those aged 25-34 years in Q1: 2022.

Groetnis

Vive la révolution and whatever they said in Russian when they turned their society into a bloodbath. Only to introduce a less educated ruling class.

And all this derailment ties 100% back to Solar Panel Theft. :smile:

Until the majority has work, the theft will increase.

Well I guess by derailing we are also stealing peoples attention? :thinking:

Or it goes towards a more interactive forum, sharing of interesting views and ideas, expanding our views overall around a particular subject matter, like this one “Solar panel Theft” and where it stems from really. :smile:

I also didn’t read it that way, so no worries there :slight_smile: But I thought I’d respond to @GRO 's comment anyway. It is something that has been mentioned before in conversations I’ve been in, and as @PJJ says, maybe at one point that sounded like a good idea, but you quickly realise that’s the sort of nonsense that went on in France, just before a very bloody revolution.

Totally in agreement that having a ruling party that uses money from people who didn’t vote for them to essentially buy votes from those who keep them in power is a problem. Is that really what is happening? Perhaps, yes. But also maybe not. I can only speculate, but I’d think that the small grants are not enough to secure a continued victory, at least not with the state things are in now.

This sort of debate comes up a little more often now in the Western Cape, where the CIAG (Cape Independence Advocacy Group) are pushing for a referendum on secession. There it is pointed out that since 2006, this province has never gotten the government they voted for… we’ll have to see how that plan goes. I’m not yet certain whether I am for or against. What I do know is that Brexit took an awfully long time to complete, and that was practically uncontested compared to what these guys are attempting.

Heard thru the grapevine of a major theft at Iseli Solar

Anybody else?

Oh boy, remember election time? They proudly show on TV the Tshirts and sammiches or meals dished out to show the benevolence. But ensuring education…. Tackling the corruption…. No brother because of them being corrupt, nobody jails themselves.

So yes that is happening, by the various grants and services given for free. It’s the same with justice, swift for the other but never for the. And the previos advantage are made to be the boogyman on top of all else and that means you. No wonder the voting goes the way it does, just as the DA of what they are accused of.

Also a reminder on that it is not just the rich that rigs the system, the crimenals and greedy do, rich or poor no matter.