Not quite the same class. The CityBug is a special category vehicle (limited speed) in China, and should retail there for around USD4000. The Panda Mini is a normal category car and retails for ~USD6000.
But between taxes and duties, both are ludicrously overpriced in SA…
Indeed a Car, not a “quad”.
According to NAAMSA 25% Tax and a sliding scale up to 30% for Ad valorem Tax on import. Plus Shipping and VAT. But hey this is retail price…
Let’s say 20% discount for the distributer? Then local markup, and no you do not need a huge dealer network setup. But then again, in SA it will likely be profit over everything, just look at out pricing in general.
GoedkoopnieGroetnis
I wonder if “cars” like the Renault Twizy can possibly escape the high import duties for EV’s since its not technically a car? 
I think the only way to have affordable EV’s in SA is to produce them here (Much like how the Toyota Cross Hybrid has much better price party here to the Haval than in other markets)
I think if Toyota acts quickly they can actually create a new “peoples car”
Take the chassis of the Toyota Corolla Cross (Already proven to be very popular)
Stick the front electric motor that they use on the Rav4 Plug in there (134kW)
And just increase the battery pack size found in the Rav4 plug in from 18kWh to 36kWh
That should in theory give you a car with ±140km range at a very competitive price range with very little R&D required.
It could be the ultimate daily run around car.
Yup. And technically that is why we have the laws penalising the imports (India has the same setup). Every time I shake my fist at the government for the taxes, I am a little aware of the fact that once we tinker with them, we’re pretty much admitting that we’d rather import than build. And that hits the country in more ways than just the availability of cars. A heap of the present prices already depend on our ability to export. Unless we start building EVs locally, even the old tech will become unaffordable in time.
Australia does not produce anything car related there, all closed down.
Groetnis
Yup, I know auto manufacturers also get sweetheart deals to produce vehicles locally in the form of tax rebates, so obviously the govt can’t lose on both fronts. (Lost tax revenues and lower jobs for locals in the manufacturing sector)
I just get the feeling somewhere some in govt is thinking : Meh, Africa will continue to use ICE vehicles for decades to come so who cares about losing the EU market…
The VW Golf in SA extended production story is a good case study here. The press dies etc needs to be replace on a regular basis, and that ain’t cheap. Also me thinks Aus is not worse off for importing everything…
Groetnis
But are they a good comparison point? I mentioned India, and there is a reason for that, because India (too) has a large car manufacturing footprint that they probably don’t want to lose.
Can we really afford to lose it? Australia probably can, but can we?
Also wages in both India and SA will be MUCH lower than in Australia.
Sadly I don’t they have even got to this point… It’s all “who is/can/wantsto/can takeover” power at the moment …
It’s not really if they a good comparison. All that old tech in our factories for ICE production that the OEM’s are bound to drop starting sooner than later. That will really leave us up the creek, so to speak. The OEM’s will abandon those investments, well what left of em anyhow, and then?
Groetnis
And an added complication is: OEM’s used to sell their old tooling on to Chinese firms who then produced “new” vehicles but on old tooling. GWM for example with the “old Isuzu” bakkie.
They have now moved on and leapfrogged the “old guard” and now produce their own EV’s.
So now OEM’s can’t sell their old tooling anymore either.
Abandon is the right term!
Me thinks the financial term for this is stranded assets, if an old ICE factory can by then be called an asset… Being part of the point about us.
GestrandeGroetnis
This here stuff, a crapshoot at best me thinks. It’s not just all upside, nor just all downside either. Places like SA, not the OEM HQ but just a point of manufacturing and distribution to get pricing to a lower point from logistics (very costly and so is imports) and distribution/manufacturing. To the OEM this is upside, the downside is cost of investment and strikes and local macro economics, well mostly it’s a downside, as well as labour costs and other taxes (cost of doing business and that includes bribes).
I kid you not, some global companies literally tell you, per example, pay the fine(bribe), declare it and claim it back. But this is just a side note.
For the country the upside is in investment (and bribes) and then employment and taxes. The downside is that when this goes to sh1t in a handbasket, the country (well really the citizens) get all the losses, like loss of income, loss of employment, old factory buildings etc etc. Also in this particular case, we gets saddled with them stranded assets. The OEM’s abscond and very many crusial subsystems or parts are no longer available. Things like say a microcontroller for the ECU or all the CAN bus controller chips that are now obsolete.
We don’t get access to the IP and code as the OEM is a gonner, so no reprogramming. And the local outfit may not have the monies to retain engineers to re-engineer or reverse engineer that stuff. So we are a wee bit fooked. Australia on the other hand have none of this, just RoRo ships doing and offloading the latest and greatest. Sure they can afford that, we not so much…
RoRotheboatashoreGroetnis
Yes, if no investment goes into them, they will indeed become stranded assets, but companies like VW have proven with their Zwickau plant that you can indeed convert a old ICE factory into a EV one, sure it takes a lot of capital investment, but the alternative is potentially losing for more of your initial investment into the ICE factory itself?
Some things like the roof will work just as well regardless of what you produce underneath it 
But I do get what you are getting at, at what point is it better to say:
Well guys we tried but it would be cheaper for all of us to cancel the subsidies to the auto manufacturers and use those savings to reduce import taxes on cars produced elsewhere in the world.
That is basically globalization 101
Everyone produces something at the highest efficiency possible and we all then trade our highly efficiently produced items with each other, it does however cause many socioeconomic issues in countries where industries are then shuttered to be moved elsewhere, so like you say : Lots of upside, Lots of downside.
That’s what I love about the world, there really is no simple “Right” answer in anything 
Well, I get what you mean, but I also think that it is possible that once you take all the parameters and constraints into account, there will be one and only one optimum answer, and what is frustrating is how often such an answer is outside the solution space because of an unnecessary constraint. For example, Venezuela traded one thing for another too (oil for food), which worked well until the parameters changed.
For sure, governments should approach these decisions like a normal person would approach their investment portfolio.
Would you place your life savings in a single company’s share? Or even a Single industry? Never.
You need to cast your net as wide as you can (even if that means a little lower return) for that stability.
Like Harry Markowitz said (about investing but it applies here too): Diversification is the only free lunch
But back to the cars!
Does someone have a email address of a Toyota executive that I can email to pitch my idea of the Toyota Corolla Cross City?
The Prius Prime (which is a PHEV) is pretty similar to this idea. And much as people hate the Prius, it is built on the TNGA-C platform. The 4th gen prius was actually the first car to be built on that platform, and later… insert a drumroll here… the AE210 Corolla was built on the same platform.
In other words, this car is on the way… albeit in PHEV form.
Talking about fossil fuels, something else I was monitoring due to the whole war situation and the oil embargos etc etc etc… Did some digging since in another post on here, there was a discussion on SA climate and if we need more heating or cooling. There is a measure for this called cooling or heating degree days. These give us some indication. Speaking in general, and on average, we need more cooling, on average across SA.
Overall, cold weather is associated with more deaths than hot weather. Cold temperatures can increase the risk of cardiovascular and respiratory diseases, as well as hypothermia and accidents, which can all lead to mortality. However, the impact of temperature on mortality can vary depending on factors such as geography, hight above seal level, age, and health status.
The specific yearly statistics on deaths related to heat and cold weather can vary depending on the location and the specific year. However, a global analysis of temperature-related deaths between 2000 and 2019 found that cold temperatures caused an average of 4.5 million deaths per year, while hot temperatures caused an average of 311,000 deaths per year. This suggests that, on a global scale, cold weather is associated with more deaths than hot weather. However, it’s important to note that the impact of temperature on mortality can vary depending on factors such as location, age, and health status.
WarmGroetnis