Heat pump a goner :( now what?

Water
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Not to throw shade or water or whatever, but I am not convinced a tripconnect is going to do anything if this is what we’re postulating it is: A problem in the inverter itself.

You may have to replace the inverter. And since that is very expensive, that’s why I was thinking hard about ways you could PROVE that the inverter needs replacing (or an angry letter sent to the manufacturer). Since this happens once every 3 months, maybe, what you need is a device that checks the quality of the grid a lot more carefully, and disconnects if it exceeds the set limits.

Simple over- and undervoltage detection is not going to do it. Not if this is as bad as we suspect. Well, I know nothing about Goodwe, but @_a_a_a seems to know quite a bit about this issue, and in my experience he’s not the kinda fella to just make things up :slight_smile:

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I think what TTT is suggesting is that if the grid just drops (as the inverter will see it) then it won’t go into an error condition or into a different error condition.

As you say, the problem we suspect is on the output side of the inverter. But this time it does seem different. The fence energiser for one - the 230V enters that and goes straight into a transformer. Last time that transformer popped, this time it did not.

Guy from Kwikot says he changes a lot of those transformers, because the pump is usually outside and the lightning surge can get into them other than via the DB. He says surge protectors usually don’t protect them because they are so vulnerable (hence the sacrifical transformer. When I opened up that pump yesterday I thought “why have they kept that transformer so seperate from everything else?” Maybe now I know. The AC actually enters the PCB, then goes straight to a male socket which is connected to the input side of the transformer by a cable. Transformer steps the 230 down to 15 and then feeds it back into the PCB by means of another cable and socket.)

But still… I have had that pump 13.something years with no failures at all. Now the transformer gets taken out twice in three months. :thinking:

Did we have storms 13 years ago and in the interim? I think we did.

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Well when I trouble shoot something at work, or get asked to help, I always ask “what changed?”. Because if a thing was working for months or years, then suddenly it isn’t, it’s not just some random thing: Something changed.

Some programmers get in a huff when I ask this, but I’m not blaming them, I’m just asking what changed (might have been a windows patch applied, might have been an upgrade of the runtime environment, any number of things) because that must be the first suspect.

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The one I found was cheaper :slight_smile:

The plug in units are quite common around here. People got tired of their fridges blowing up after load shedding. They got even more tired of it when insurance stopped paying.

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And it can be hard getting an answer, and even silly things can be responsible.

Ten years ago I had an airbag error pop up on a car, after owning the car for two days, and with it being scarcely two years old. I also wondered, did I do something different at the time it came on? Well, yes. The first two days only I drove it. On the third day, my wife went with me. And she moved the passenger seat. The issue was the harness under the passenger seat.

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Ok, I missed that part.

Having had my share of inverter quirks, on good advices and a super cool supplier: Here is a loan unit, lets see if the error goes away.

Now I know some good suggestions have been shared to try and prove the cause but me knowing a little bit about these things, read “nothing”, unless you have the right equipment, it is trial and error.

Send the inverter in to a shop that can test it?

Tripconnect, the story I told before of the fan in the bedroom increasing in speed (grid volts increasing) then dropping again when the inverter disconnected from the grid, 230v again.
Ps. Fan was on the critical loads circuit.

Realised that AC is being passed thought the inverter, so the entire house, inverter included, was exposed to the increased grid volts.

So great, the inverter disconnects to protect itself and all that is connected to it downstream.

Until it hit me … but what about the rest of the house/devices that are not on the inverter circuit, that is exposed to the higher volts?

THAT is why I installed the Tripconnect. I now cause “LS” when volts go too high or too low. Got tired of things not lasting due to gid woes.

Also why I have UPS’es on really critical parts, like TV’s, PC’s and network equipment. They do have more protections built in.

Titibit:
These couple of UPS’es I installed, all free.
People throw these small UPS out in disgust. "They “don’t last”, “Not working anymore”.
Replace the dead LA’s batts with lithium batts.

Want the UPS’es for their built in additional protections, not to carry the loads. That is what the inverter is for. :wink:

Maybe consider same for sensitive devices in your house, to put them on a UPS?

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Isn’t this just kicking the can back down the road. ITSM to me that a UPS breaks the physical connection between grid and the device it protects, but wont it take the hit instead of whatever it is protecting?

IDK, so I ask.

Also, in the case of the heatpump I’d have to have the UPS permanently connected between the DB, or between an outlet, and the heatpump. So either it gets exposed to the elements (not a good idea) or it has to become part of the house’s wiring.

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UPS not an option for a heat pump, sorry.

Kicking the can, yes, treating the symptoms, in your case, is a kicker.

Me, long term, solar system mitigates some issues, not all. Hence the UPS’es.

Like my cousin, grid (transformer woes) damaged his Victron inverter.
My supplier suggesting to consider installing a surge protection device before and after the inverter:

  • The before for grid woes.
  • The after for residual lightning surges coming back to the inverter.

This was due to them having a spate of repairs flooding their repair shop related to surges.

My inverter literally sits between two surge arrestors.
Overkill, probably.
But I’ve done all I can to stop surges to the inverter.

UPS’es for the next level sensi equipment.

Note: All of this is existential to your issue probably.
Have your inverter tested by the right shop for a fault.

If all checks out fine, then you may need to extend your mitigation of risks.

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Mine has SPDs on both sides. Well… They are in the DB.

Earlier on I talked about always suspecting recent changes when I troubleshoot. Somebody comes to me and says “this used to do [whatever], now look at it.” In software, things never just sommer fail. Something changes.

So what has changed chez Bobster? Well quite a bit.
Two firmware upgrades on the inverter.

Some cabling in the roof.

The entire AC sub DB for the inverter. They came with a prepoulated board that includes SPDs and a change over switch and a couple of breakers.

I assume this is made for Sunsynks (their bread & butter, they don’t install Goodwe anymore). But they had problems. They had to change the wiring inside that DB “because the Goodwe is fussy about earth”.

Finally I wanted an inside socket connected to the grid, so that was taken off the same DB (which has grid on the input side, and has its own breaker).

So quite a bit changed. And shortly after all those changes (which happened over about a month) we suddenly had things popping whereas before lightning never bothered us.

Though maybe it wasn’t lightning, maybe the inverter put some DC on the AC bus. Just briefly.

But I can’t check anything here. Since the installer has gone under (and they were busy and seemed to be doing well, but never forgot their existing client base .) The boss is now selling a thing called a bee island. A multicoloured cushion that floats in your pool and the bees prefer that to drowning. Anyway, now I can ask somebody else to open the DB and see if the SPDs are correctly connected.

If they are, then I need to get Goodwe to roll back the firmware one version. But then I have to wait. And how long?

I hear what you say about getting it tested. You try & find somebody who will check out a Goodwe. If it’s Victron, Axpert or Sunsynk then everybody knows those. But Goodwe…

Maybe I should break open the piggy bank & get Victron.

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I thought that but you said it first. :grinning:

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I sent a message to the owner. He replied three days later to say that they have closed down due to a sustained drop in demand.

It’s a shame. Several folks lost their jobs.

It must be scary being an entrepreneurial type & setting up your own business. Sure you can do well, but there are so many things out of your control that can pull the rug out from under you.

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I’m trying to decide between replacing a heat pump at my brother or adding PV panels and upgrading his inverter using the money saved by not replacing the HP. A 2kW element in my 150L system at home manages just fine off my system. The PV/inverter upgrade will go ahead regardless early next year so it’s not and if/when thing. The HP is on top of an awkward to get at roof in a complex and HP guys duck and dive when you try to get them around to service/repair. Last guy confirmed the compressor was faulty but is ducking and diving when asked to replace the unit. He will eventually have excess PV so may as well drive a 2kW element once batteries are charged.

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I wouldn’t install in a complex. Somebody is bound to complain about the noise. And who is responsible for the upkeep? Body corporate? (that’s the case where my Mum lives). Big can of worms.

Depends on how old it is. Mine is 13. I’ve already been told that they will replace electronics but not the motor or the compressor or anything that carries gas. Because the new ones use a newer, greener gas with different characteristics and so the motor and compressor are different. They don’t want to deal with that old gas anymore.

But I’ve had good service from Kwikot. I wish I’d got in touch with them years ago rather than signing up for this maintenance plan that the vendor offered to clients.

My pump was not installed by Kwikot, but their policy is that it came out of their factory so they support it.

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Just had an electrician with a very good reputation here. There are multiple compliance issues in the house (which I suspected, but for years all I did was have suspicion) and we had a chat about the job that is coming.

I asked if he would look at the surge protection while he was at it. He looks at the sub DB for the inverter and gets a look on his face. So I ask him. He says (diplomatically) that is not the best surge protection they could have used. Also, he says, there is nothing on the incoming line from the grid.

Now, he did explain what I already knew: That the lightning (if that’s what it is) doesn’t have to hit a grid cable. But he also said he’d want a bit more in his DB (and he has solar at home).

Now, the AC sub-db for the inverter was changed a few months back. The actual surface mount box was damaged. The installer fitted a new, pre-wired board.

Whilst he is checking out the whole property, we go into the garage. I say oh look! There’s the DB they took out. He looks at this, and says “oh, those are much better SPDs. And more expensive.”. The old ones are branded “Dehn”.

So there’s a change.

Anecdotally he tells me that he’s seen a lot of surge damage recently, and thinks the storms are either getting closer or are more electrically powerful. I’d said to him that we went for years without any sort of lightning damage, now I get two strikes that have taken stuff out in the last few months. He says I am not alone in this, it IS a bad summer for that sort of damage.

Ja… I know, it could still be DC getting onto the protected circuits output, and the SPDs won’t help much with that, but we are going to beef up the surge protection.

Basically the installer has just protected the inverter and the backed up circuits, now we are going to protect the whole property.

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The market leader in this field!
Why they don’t strip out what is still good (if not better!) and install that in the new DB boggles my mind.

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Simple answer above - “The installer fitted a new, pre-wired board.”

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With inferior equipment!

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This is what I was hoping they’d do. There was nothing that wasn’t working, the actual surface-mount DB was broken so that the front panel came away very easily.

I also suspect that the DB they bought with them was pre-wired to suit a particular brand of inverter. You’d think there’d be no differences, but they took the old one done, mounted the new one, connected up the input and output… and the Goodwe was not happy.

The guy doing the job tried several times. Had to call in somebody else. When the 2nd guy arrived he had a look, and I didn’t hear everything they said, but I was watching the inverter on my phone and it suddenly started working correctly and the second guy says “see!! It was that earth, like I told you.”

So if they’d just moved all the existing components to new DB and maintained the existing connections they would probably have made life easier for themselves. Though they wouldn’t have been able to bill me 2500 odd for a new pre-populated DB.

Anyway, the Dehn SPDs are going to be repurposed soon.

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