I have a 2 bedroom rental unit on my property with a older couple in it for the past 3 weeks.
When they came to look at the unit they were glad to see the space in the kitchen, because they have a big gas stove which they wanted to bring with. This suits me in terms of electricity use, since I could dump the very old electric stove which was in there.
I still have to get a proper gas installation done for the stove, however for the last week I developed the idea in my head to tell the gas guy, the installation should be done with future expantion in mind, adding a gas geyser at some point.
A friend who knows a lot about plumbing told me today the 150l electric geyser is as old as the mountains, in fact a Geyserwise thermostat can’t even be installed on it. He said he can crack it open and put in a modern element, however he can’t see the tank lasting long now that it’s suddenly permanently in use again.
So my thinking is to go all out and install a gas geyser as well while at it. The installation will be at my cost, but the gas usage will be for the tennant.
So far I looked at Dewhot, they are decently priced and I read a lot of good things about them. O I have hard borehole water, so would have to do something about that as well.
What I like about the Dewhot is the fact that it can work anywhere from 0.25 to 5 bar pressure, which means it will be able to work when my pressure pump is off due to Eskom. I’m not yet sure whether to go for a 12l or 16l, probably 12l since the place only have one shower and then the kitchen.
Will Dewhot be a good choice or are there others I should look at which is a lot better in terms of efficiency for not a lot more money? I see most manufacturers claim efficiency somewhere in the 80% range.
What I commonly read on this forum, and on the other place, is that the best ways to heat water are solar geyser or heat pump.
I have the latter. It draws less than even a 2kW element, and heats much faster. So there’s a saving there.
But you still have a problem with the old geyser. Honestly, the best thing to do might be to let it pop and let insurance pay for the damage and a new geyser, Then once you have the new one, change the anode every 2 years.
The Gas Company in Centurion (the initials indicate this is the actual name of the company) will rent you a water heating solution. The rental includes them checking the bottles and refilling or replacing as necessary. And if you decide it’s not for you they will come and remove it again (but I would expect there’d be a fee for that).
I have two gas geysers as a backup. But they are Bosch, which is not bad, but hardly anything fancy, and one of them is actually pretty problematic and I want to get rid of it.
I have no experience with anything else, and I don’t have anything particularly good (or bad) to say of the ones I’ve got.
I have a 26 liter Paloma installed the last 5 years and it has been hastle free. Very reliable and it has a remote temp controller, just set the temp you want and only use hot water, no mixing with cold water.
Hi sir. Please whatsapp me the total when he quotes you. For a proper gas geyser you can spend the same and in some cases more than installing an heat pump.
They are flow sensitive and if not specked correctly will lead to endless problems. No-name brands wont have spares in future and gas can run out. Been through this exercise with clients over and over and over.
Last week we installed a heat pump and 200l geyser for a client in Natal. We fed the geyser with water out of a tank to test the system and the water was at 28 degrees. Started the heat pump and 42 min later the geyser were at temperature @ 55 deg. The heat pump consumes 1200wh. We have heated the 200 l geyser with 840wh. Should you be on an Eskom supply at peak rate of R3.20 per kwh this heating would have costed you ± R2.68.
Two people using this geyser and to reheat the usage plus standing loss takes on average 30 min per day after installation. I must admit it is pretty hot in his area this time of year, but looking at a guaranteed COP of 3 and COP’s of 7.5 in hot weather areas, its a very good solution.
A friend of my client joined in the conversation. He argued his gas geyser is better, so we looked at the specs and was shocked. The gas consumption of his 16l geyser at max flow and max heating was 2.5kg per running hour. He buys 48kg bottles at R1400 so the cost of 1kg of gas = R29.16.
To run the heat pump for an hour would cost R3.20 on Eskom
To run the gas geyser for an hour would cost R72.92.
The price of his gas geyser and installation was less than R1k less than the price of the heat pump. He installed a reputable brand.
There are cheap options available from the gas outlets, but please stay away from them. they are trouble.
Thank you for the call and explaining everything MNr
As said if it was for my own house, I would have looked at a heat pump no doubt.
Just as an aside for interest sake, how does that same heat pump perform in winter? Our winters can get damn cold, in that one week this past winter we measured -2 a couple of mornings, guys closer to the river had -8 with copper pipes outside splitting open.
Summer is no problem, remember we are a couple clicks closer to hell than Pretoria. :Smily
The nice thing with ITS for example, the owner Riaan H decided years ago he will rate his heat pumps at minimum COP. If the specs state 3 it effectively means that the heatpump will be 300 % efficient measured in the coldest areas in SA. the spec sheet say that this is @ 0 deg.
This same heat pump will have a COP of up to 7.5 in hot areas like phalaborwa although we have seen higher COP’s on 40 degree + days.
I personally feel that anything above 5 degrees is more than enough to ensure a proper COP. I would not set my timer to run in the middle of the night in a sub zero conditions.
When I attended a course with Riaan, we asked him why his heat pumps claim a 3 COP and other brands up to 4 or 5 out of the box. His answer “I have taken cold areas in SA into consideration and will rather underpromise and overdeliver, than doing what other brands do”
EDIT: The engineer responsible for energy efficiency on Phalaborwa mining company claims that they have recorded COP’s of 11 on a very hot day in the area. This is just crazy, 1100% efficient. I have not personally seen this myself, but trust this engineer enough to believe his claims.
I agree with @JacoDeJongh here, if saving money is the objective, don’t even bother with gas. There is savings (yes, mostly because you have no standing loss), but compared to a heat pump it’s pennies. And unless you have piped gas to the home, you have the additional inconvenience of transporting bottles of LPG to the site.
But, if it is an off-grid place with no grid electricity, maybe a weekend or holiday place, then of course I would also go with gas.
It’s for tenants, I anyway have to do a gas install for their stove in order to get a CoC etc. plus they pay for the gas, I pay for their electricity.
Even should they move out or I decide to no longer rent out the place in future, it will go back to being a occasional use place for friends and family. Before the tenants moved in a week ago, I think that geyser was on for 20 hours so far this year.
If I start doing heat pumps, I’ll first do one for myself. :smily
Time to hijack this thread for my own ponderings…
I have 2 hot water taps (kitchen and washing room) at the far end of the house. Takes a minute or more for hot water to reach these taps from the geyser, which is a tad tedious. On top of that, there are some old galvanised pipes in the system which need to be removed/replaced at some point.
These taps are also seldom used - maybe only once or twice a week.
So, I am contemplating going to point of use heating for these 2 taps.
Electricity is both free(ish) and green, so is the ideal option, but:
in-line heaters will require dedicated circuits and wiring to install (at least 32A for something that can do a reasonable flow rate)
under sink geyser may work for the kitchen basin (although standing losses will be quite significant), but will never work for the washing machine.
Since I am also installing a gas stove (not very green, but it is so much nicer to cook on than anything else), I was contemplating small gas geysers at each tap. Utilisation is low, so gas consumption should be minimal. Price is a bit steep if I install 2, but I suppose I can do one at the kitchen and plumb it to the wash room too…
Any comments/suggestions/other options I am not thinking of?
I assume you have solar, have you considered adding a 50l geyser with 1 kW element at the far end of the house? By the sounds of it this works well for TTT.
Otherwise I’d say yes install a gas geyser for each, or depending how far they are apart one gas geyser might also work.
You’ll already be installing gas for the stove anyway, so if the geyser/s will be close it won’t add much to the price of a gas installation. That’s why I also pretty much made up my mind on the gas geyser, because I’ll have to do a gas installation for the stove anyway.
I left the 2kw element in as is. KISS. Cents on the rand.
Some hot water taps are just not worth the struggle, like a kitchen. Health issue too.
Reason I got the 50l in the kitchen, and for one shower, was that the main geyser was like 20m away on the other side of the property.
The wasted water, not to mention heat in the main geyser, grinded me something fierce.
Because of the shower, single person, I did the sums for instant heaters also at the time. The 50l geyser won.
Titbit 1:
Now because they are not cheap, the 50l geysers. Got one 2nd hand off Gumtree.
It lasted about 4 years, became a insurance replacement.
Titbit 2:
Because we now have 3 geysers on the property, 4th being a gas geyser, all electric geysers have been replaced under the policy, the insurer got wise.
With each geyser replacement, R1500 excess.
Why the gas geyser? Had a 2nd hand 100l one in hand?
Because it became a bridge too far for the solar system.
And the gas geyser, the costs of the gas, for that areas users.
Those under-counter things come in a 10-, 15- and 35 liter model. I would be really surprised if the 35-liter model doesn’t do the trick, assuming you’re not running a laundry
