Let the comrades eat… Then we don’t (cannot) have to do much.
HongorGroetnis
The sun (the real one) will rise, every singly fooking day.
The sun (of corruption) will rise … every singly fooking day until we “get angry” enough as a nation.
Don’t have fancy quotes, philosophical insights nor big new words to put that more succinctly. 
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No need to Sir!
Groetnis
Well, the day it doesn’t, it probably also doesn’t matter (to us). Because we’ll be dead.
All that Hume really says, is you cannot deduce from something repeatedly happening that it will continue to do so, or that there is any necessity implied that it should continue to do so. The only things we can really assert to be false (with 100% confidence) is things that contradict themselves.
Ironically, this is one big problem science has. The entire enterprise is based on things being repeatable. And for the most part it works, it works very well, but there is a tiny part of the truth-market it cannot corner: It has to assume that reality is regular enough to expect regularity.
Anyway… I’ve been overly philosophical today. I refuse to believe that people cannot do better. They can. These other things are excuses we hide behind.
Past behaviour is an exceptionally good predictor of future behaviour, so I say to Hume, take that fluffy…
Regarding your view Plonk that people can do better. I am sorry to inform you, you failed. Because that is what you do, you are projecting that onto others, and that has been a mistake we all make all to frequently, projection. Because you want to do better, you expect other to as well.
Now for a six year period doing my national service, I was seconded to the then SAPS. Let me tell you from experience, both in police work as normal, but also 6 weekly 1-2 week stints in the Angolan war, that ain’t even close to the truth when it gets to miscreants, criminals and people of various mental states of disfunction.
EklosditmaarhierGroetnis
Oh they can. They absolutely do have the inherent capacity. Just like an alcoholic can be sober. But there is a certain amount of what is probably a close cousin of learned helplessness, I think, where at some point, you’ve learned that you can’t, through your own evil devices.
Edit: That is to say, I totally understand what you mean.
Amen!
Miscreants, criminals, and people of various mental states of dysfunction… sometimes philosophers and psychologists and all the other “goody two shoes” should just take a step back and stop “projecting” and accept that some things are just broken, cannot be talked nor explained away.
A different action is needed … and THAT is what people today shy away from.
Call a spade a spade and be done with it.
I have a different view, what a surprise not… Negative and self fulfilling that is. I am owed the World and you must give it to me for free, ie. entitlement. Selfishness to the extreme. If I blame someone else, it is not my fault and I am not responsible, so I can continue unabated in the knowledge that it is you! Victim is always me, appears to be a cultural and/or socialist thing, it is just speculation on my part.
But just so that there is no misunderstanding about why I have my strong opinions, here is some background.
Groetnis
Hah! You should see some of these people. Nietzsche died of Syphilis. Bertrand Russell tried his utmost to “sleep” his way to happiness too (it didn’t work). But in many ways, that is what makes them so awesome to read. It’s like they know things are screwed, but you can never totally prove it.
During my SAPS years, I worked with Taakmag, assisted the VIP protection units, worked with COIN (Counter Insurgency) and Koevoet, no I was not a member. Managed the Crypto Radio links from KatimaMulilo and Oshakati back to SAPS HQ, worked at Radio technical and later at Video unit and here worked closely with the Child protection units countrywide. The things I saw and had to endure can go with me to the grave.
Stared down the barrels of guns pointed at me, helped break up a few criminal gangs, and helped put many a criminal and terrorist behind bars. Yea, been there and saw all that.
MaarGroetniseksnoghier
Bogger. That is what I call experience.
… it gives you a deeper insight into real actual life, people, the levels of depravity humans can reach … not the movie version.
… and nightmares for life.
Sights nobody should ever see, smells you can never forget, nightmares for life… There were no counselling, no debriefings in my time. The Shonas in blinding heat in a CASSPIR for COIN did nothing to help. Buckle up buttercup, jy’s nie n sissie nie ne.
There were also funny times, good experiences, altho not more frequently than the bad ones. Many a year later it got a bit much altogether and had to get help. That is behind me for the longest of time, but shaped me in ways I cannot fathom.
TheRainbowNationGroetnis
EDIT: PS, this is the first time since forever I even mentioned this, privately or publicly
We drove a stint for 101 Battalion on the border. Log Buffel, diesel, and food on the back, as they could not “keep up” with the Caspers on patrol … till me and my pal “volunteered” to drive log Buffels.
Got off “Scott free” as they say. Super lucky on a couple of occasions … and no nightmares.
National Service made us boys into men, as did SAPS back then.
And it scarred a big bunch of young men.
I am eternally grateful that I skipped that ordeal. Mostly on account of being a Namibian (so it all ended in 1989), but also on account of being a few years too young (the last guys who went were the born-in-1970 ones I believe).
I understand that some of my views stems from the luxury of not having had that experience. But also, no mother wants to send her child to a war zone. Nobody REALLY wants to do these things. Except maybe a few crazy ones. Some people became men, some became monsters.
For me, the question is always whether such traumatic experiences make people more or less objective. When someone, in a debate about rural farm security, yells at me that I would have the same bitter opinion if those things happened to me. Yes… I likely will. But that doesn’t mean I will be right.
Not saying anyone is wrong here. I’m saying this sh*t is difficult. I have respect for the people who had to weather it.
No one can answer that. Cannot reset and do-over.
What I do know is once one has experienced whatever, you have deeper insight than for example an armchair critic who philosophies about how such an experience could/should have felt like.
Like “they” … hold on … I say: Talking the walk versus having actually walked the talk.
… and that makes it such a challenge debating with a female … cause they can talk any walk.
In life, I firmly believe, there is no good nor bad, just that there is life to live. Life and the World own nobody anything, we are here to make the best of it, my belief, that we can. Others believe differently, each to their own. Some people take advantage of others, some are dumb, some are criminals as it is easier than to earn a living, something for nothing or the World is unfair and I deserve what you have, purely selfish with no regard for life or values. Philistines… No honesty left.
All citizens have a pact (why?) with government and pay them for the service and monopolising violence. To what end you may ask, to protect our borders and fellow citizens. This pact mostly never works perfectly, ever, and frequently fails in most places, but it is still the best we can negotiate. Look at the democide (own killings by governments everywhere) numbers. A socialist, forgot who, once said, the killing of one is a tragedy, the killing of millions merely a statistic…
So, for me in life, I attempt to do better tomorrow that I did today. Instill what I believe to be good moral and ethical values in my family and where appropriate, in my friends by example. Life was this far good to me, I gained a lot from it, lived a rich life in experiences, good and bad. I am now the eternal pessimistic optimist, or maybe the optimistic pessimist. Now I can also share freely so others may hopefully benefit, time to give as freely as I have received, and I got a lot. I can give it all to others, no cost to me but enjoyment.
LekkerleweGroetnis
In that sense, I disagree. I think there is good and bad. Knowing which is which is the hard part, but denying this reality lands you in all sorts of logical (nevermind philosophical) issues.
The reality is that the moment we declare that there is no moral yardstick, we also lose the right to moan about what is going on at Eskom. All our B & M’ing (as TTT puts it) is akin to complaining that banana-flavoured ice-cream is a really stupid idea, or that Pineapple on Pizza should be outlawed.
Dude, good and bad is relative… For the guys I call Bad, it’s good and I am bad, and the other way round, that is what I meant, not absolute good and no absolute bad. Even the people I call bad somehow love themselves, it nothing else.
But enough of that, I am no philosopher.
Groetnis
1971 - I’m one of them. Went to varsity instead of Bloemfontein.
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See life decided to get me breathing in 1962, so ja I got all of it, undiluted, and I am happy for breathing still and outlived all of that. It had its part in making me, and I am content.
LekkerGroetnis
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