Censored on PF for mentioning EnergyTalk

I had a list of almost 10 reasons why I hate MySQL. One of the big ones was the non-standard treatment of a GROUP BY. If you run a query where you group some columns, and you don’t put an aggregate on the non-grouped columns… MySQL chooses a random one. The query succeeds (while it should not). It also had the weirdest way to quote literal names (backticks if I recall?), for the longest time you could not do subqueries and had to do everything with joins… and I think the clincher was on one project where we moved a massive database from MySQL to Postgres and the thing actually got faster… proving that the one selling point it always had (oh, but it is faster!) was utter nonsense. Of course the moment you wanted any sort of relational integrity, you had to use InnoDB anyway, which did away with the performance advantages anyway.

So nowadays, when I see something built on PHP+MySQL, I run for the hills :slight_smile:

Edit: To be fair, MySQL is faster… if you’re on a single-threaded platform.

Additionally, InnoDB’s recovery strategy after database corruption is pretty much “restore a backup” (if you have one). None of the repair tools/queries work with InnoDB.

Our cheapskate clients tend to go for MySQL, and because they’re cheapskate they also don’t bother to buy a UPS for their server. Not a good combination with loadshedding.

And PHP+MySQL are perfect bedfellows because they both basically collections of quirks.

I’ve used both for 20 years and still help people maintain some pretty large systems with lots of TPS. I’ve used pgsql in a few places incl. a multi TB DB with population size data and its definitely the better solution (and makes my brain hurt).

But for point and squirt, MySQL is pretty useful. Just like PHP. Until you realise your point and squirt has become a lumbering tank and you should’ve made the effort to use pgsql and python instead…

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Ok, let me derail this some more … (evil grin) …

For the last 22 years, we have used MS SQL Express, the free version, to run DB’s on customers PC’s with nary a problem. And it is a system that collects Debit orders and pays monies out so it is pretty critical system…

If the data gets so old (tends to be around 10 years cause we develop it properly) that it exceeds the 10Gig DB file limit, we simply sort that then.

For the rest of the time it works, it is free on any Windows PC, or server if one insists … with backups that are automated and kept for 8 days.

Never lost a DB in 22 years, and don’t intend loosing one in the future.

If one uses the tools properly, nary a problem.

Watch, now the fight really starts … :rofl: … M$ versus the rest.

Another crucial limitation of Express is the 3GB ram limit.

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True … the software is developed for that, KIS … I was lucky to get some seriously qualified developers to take on the task at the time. One was an old-school AS400 developer. He set down the core logic to keep it easy, fast, and light, the software and DB structures, and what is stored in the tables.

Use your PC as normal, just have 8Gb’s Mem and an SSD drive please, for my convenience if you need support, and you can run the software and DB on the same PC.

Some of my competitors did not have the same caliber developers originally, today they must have full-blown SQL on a server with all that costs involved, which is staggering at times.

All boils down to the experience of the original developer/s, as I learned.

True, but developers can only optimize so much (and that is also not free) at some point you just have to say :
Sure killing a lion with a pointy stick is possible but damn its sure a lot easier with a rifle :stuck_out_tongue:

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Or leave the lion, and point the pointy stick at the developer …

One tends to have one chance at this, the first lines of code. To change a big operating system later, with probably data conversions, is much much worse. Tried that once or twice, then I sharpened the pointy stick …whilst glaring viciously at the “masters-of-code”, testing the pointy point on my thumb …

Sometimes it works …

So while we’ve now completely derailed this, I would like to present you with a question that plagued me for the longest time, one to which I found the answer to.

The question, of course, is what the difference is between a sysadmin and a devops engineer?

The answer is that a sysadmin has his own hardware.

As a last word from me on this topic, I was contacted by the owner of Power forum via email yesterday asking me to remove threads like these referring to Power Forum, as it’s not true.

My stance on this is that I will NOT remove them as I trust that no one will make up these stories without reason. I know of a few guys that got banned, or that were given a temporary ban for mentioning my name or my forum’s name.

I think we should just move every off-topic conversation here, then they’ll have to keep reading all tax and car advice we can come up with…

Jis, het ek nou lekker gelag vir daai comment!!! :rofl:

I unknowingly posted some links to threads linking to energytalk to help people solve issues, see those are also gone. Eish nee man. Are they trying to help people or just make money? Not impressed. On the same note though, threads on this forum seem to derail worse than transnet trains during wage negotiations which makes it a real pain sifting the real information and getting some value

I think a fine line should be struck between keeping the forum interesting and fun for the regular members, as well as making it a source of information. Regular members aren’t going to consistently come back and contribute if they are only allowed to write up manuals, and people with questions rarely search the forum for answers, they’d rather just make a new topic.

I personally think the best way to handle the mixture is to:

  1. Let people talk while they’re talking
  2. Pack things away when they’re done, and are unlikely to continue.

Practically, that means we let treads derail if the people in them want them to derail, they’re having the conversation after all. Then, once things are a bit quieter, or one of the participants bring it back, move the off-topic posts to another thread, but only after the conversation has moved on again.

That way active participants can discuss what they want, but (both!) threads contain useful info for the future.

But it takes more work from the moderators…

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Yes, “we” derail frequently, I have myself asked for posts to be moved out of some of “my” threads. A feather in the Admin’s caps.

Maybe that is a solution … if an important thread gets derailed, always good-naturedly, ask an Admin to move the posts?

very apt analogy… pardon my burp :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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For me the difference as a sysadmin is I cannot wrap my head around docker… I mean yes, I get it, mostly but why!?

To avoid the classic: That’s strange? It was working on my machine.


From the latests discussions it looks like the PowerShop has a shipment of individual LifePo4 cells on the water. I suspect that is perhaps why they did not want me linking to the group buy thread on the Energytalk forum.