Any Donald Trump supporters?

I think, we are waaaayyyy past that point.

Zelenskyy has been “held back” since the start of the war.
If “they” let him “loose”, all that pent up frustrations comes out … geez.

The only question I have:
Who is going to play poker, or even chess, with Putin?
Putin has everything to lose at this point in time.

Along comes a Sentient Naartjie and slams himself into the center of it all, the Great bestest of the best Negotiator.

What can possibly go wrong?

Well I think Trump is decreasing the influence of the USA in the world at a massive rate. If the EU needs to support Ukraine on their own they will. And then USA has no influence there.

The same with tariffs and retaliatory economic policies - if you make every partner you had in the past mad at you, your partners will just set up preferential trade agreements amongst themselves without you.

It’s going to be very interesting to see where the USA stands in relation to the rest of the world 4 years from now.

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Oh and the USA is demonstrating that they are not a dependable or trustworthy partner to anyone - that cant be good to long term partnerships and relationships.

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Not sure what I can make of this, but definitely leaning hard along the lines of what Tvic says above.
Wonder how and where China, Iran, N/Korea fits in with these “new besties forever”?
Do they even feature? Does Europe even feature?
“From Russia with love” but at what cost of European relations?

I don’t see any moves here that satisfies any of the parties involved other than Putin must go.
And that’s not happening naturally.

Trump and Zelensky traded blows in an escalating feud

President Trump yesterday called Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, a “dictator” who had taken money from the U.S. to go to war with Russia. In a social media post littered with falsehoods, Trump didn’t mention President Vladimir Putin, or that Russia had seized some Ukrainian territory in 2014 before its full-scale invasion in 2022.

Trump also suggested that the future security of Ukraine would not be an American problem.

“This War is far more important to Europe than it is to us,” he wrote on Truth Social. “We have a big, beautiful Ocean as separation.”

The feud began after White House and Kremlin officials in Saudi Arabia began peace talks that excluded Ukraine. After that meeting on Tuesday, Trump suggested that Ukraine had started the war. Afterward, Zelensky said Trump had been “caught in a web of disinformation.”

E.U.: Leaders met yesterday for a second emergency meeting seeking to recalibrate relations with the U.S. as Trump moved closer to Russia.

Reactions: Russians are hoping that a return to normalcy is near now that Washington and Moscow are moving to reset their relationship. In Ukraine, many are becoming disillusioned with the Trump administration.

Trump’s claims: Here’s a breakdown of recent falsehoods he has made about Ukraine.

This is already happening. Canada has fast tracked the building of some oil pipelines, and is already talking to the EU about exports. Of course it is less than ideal, given the distances, but with the tariffs that are on the table, it may well make economic sense.

Something else that was mentioned on the Canadian side, but I think they are holding off for now, no need to antagonise people any more than necessary, is that Canada actually sells their crude to the US at a cheaper price. Because, you know, it was beneficial to them. One thing Canada will likely do, if tariffs are instituted and they improve trade with the EU, would be to sell that oil to the US at full price. So the US will get to pay the same as everyone else, plus the 10% tariff (on energy).

I mean, if I was Canada, and my neighbour slapped 25% on everything, but helpfully (for himself) discounted energy with a tariff of only 10%, my response would be to do whatever I can to nullify that advantage.

It’s a comedy of errors, isn’t it? I mean, first Russia decides to isolate themselves from the world by starting a war, and now the US seems to want to do the exact same thing?

What is more, there is the whole ongoing case of Ukraine’s application for NATO membership in September 2022. NATO is a defensive alliance, and Putin does not fear them in that role. But Ukranian membership changes all that. Of course, the US is a founding member of that alliance, and while one would be inclined to dismiss the claims that Trump is in bed with Putin… you could be forgiven for believing it.

But this is a big part of the problem. Putin has only two broad options

  1. Bludgeon the Ukraine into submission
  2. Lose face. He’s supposed to be the strong man, and he can’t even conquer a not particularly powerful country.

OK… Trump is now talking about a third way, but Ukraine are being frozen out, and where does that leave Putin? Putting down what he would call rebels for the next how many years? He’d be back to option (1) really.

Well he’s wrong there. Because if the pawpaw really hits the fan, an attack from Russia wouldn’t come over the Atlantic. It would come over the Bering straits. The US is not that far away from Russia actually, and Trump is being badly informed if he says otherwise - or is hoping that bluster will baffle brains.

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This game of “chess” being played, the amount of people involved, the connections and diplomats, the voters … it is at a level that defies belief, even common understanding.

And then one has to consider … it is only for 4 years with Trump … and then it all can change again.

So any move made must be analyzed comprehensibly and extensively before any action can take place whatsoever.

My head hurts now.

What Tvic said …

Biden and now Trump, the damages cause by these two on top of the deep divide between voters/even states in the USA. Not good for the USA’s image of “world leader”.

There is a third option. Retirement. You retire, your successor then pulls you out of that unpopular war.

I imagine that’s not much different from option 2 though. But there is also forced retirement.

Read once, that Putin, if he is not the “strong man” anymore, will have to grow eyes in the back of his head, or grow wings.

This thing in Russia where people tend to “accidently” fall out of high buildings.

Putin cannot retire.

Well, when I said forced retirement, that is not what I meant… not officially at least… but it works.

OK, lest that be seen as incitement. No, don’t do that. We want to avoid that sort of thing. That’s the entire point of stopping the playing of stupid games that only rewards you with stupid prizes.

Russia has SO much potential. Especially now that the US doesn’t want to trade with others anymore. They are already part of BRICS and right now, again, with the US not wanting to trade, that other block is beginning to look rather interesting to some people. A lot of countries are already cosying up to China.

The need for materials to build electric cars is going to go up significantly in the coming years.

If ever there was a time for Russia to go home and stop all this foolishness, it is now.

(I’m obviously not an political commentator. This rates as “just my opinion”. Man.)

Following up o that:

Yeah, Europe is not too happy … and the official comments from Trump, geez!!!

How can any sane politician, president, leader trust anything he says?

So Zelensky is excluded from talks over his own country by Trump …

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

In the video I posted earlier, he’s actually quite graceful about it. He says “It’s up to them, I mean, they can discuss anything they want… but not about Ukraine, without us”. And we hear the same thing from the EU. The EU is basically saying “this is in our own backyard, you won’t make decisions without us present”.

He also says that the solution is “we need to talk more”. He understands, correctly I think, that when you are talking to someone face to face, it is a lot harder to be nasty behind his back. Harder… not impossible. Plus, always good to have someone on camera making promises, and a certain someone always makes promises.

That he is, in the Guardian article I posted:

Trump on camera making promises … ?
If he’s called on that, it will labelled fake news, he never said it. :rofl:

Saw this from a professor at a seminary in Kyiv, called Mark McDonnel. Also underscoring that Trump gets his information from Putin, and as a result both do not reflect reality.

AMERICAN MISSIONARIES IN UKRAINE

This is a strange post, but here goes. I have noticed that a lot of American missionaries have been posting about Ukraine, Russia, and Trump lately. That in itself is not bad. But the situation is different from what is normal.

Donald Trump is a Republican president, and most all American missionaries are conservative on most things. So it is strange for American churches and believers to hear their conservative missionaries say that Donald Trump is wrong about Ukraine.

I want to ask all my American friends and churches in the US to be patient and go slow as you read what we are saying. Normally to go against a Republican president is a sign that a person is a liberal. And most American missionaries would agree with that. However, those of us who currently are living here or those who were here for a very long time have a concrete perspective on the war between Russia and Ukraine.

Be patient with your missionaries. Rather than getting triggered by our words about Trump, first of all ask how we are doing. We are getting daily bombarded with drones, missiles, and air alarms. This past week, the air alarms are lasting pretty much all night long.

Also understand that our disagreement with Trump on this issue is not a sudden rejection of conservative ideals, but is a gut reaction to the fact that Trump’s description of what is happening here matches what Putin says, and directly contradicts our daily experience.

So please, don’t drop our support. Look for ways to communicate with us. Talk to us about your concerns, and perhaps be willing to listen to ours. We are committed to the Lord, and we are committed to this people and nation that God has called us to love and serve. And we feel we are in good conscience representing those in the States who have helped to send us here. I hope this makes sense.

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Trump gets corrected on international TV …

Did he blush?

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Oh… I loved that hand on the arm moment… just shush, let me handle this… :slight_smile:

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Mexico and Canada, who signed those deals… guess. (towards the end)

But listen to the rest too …