I want to implement a home automation system but need some thing very reliable.
I’ve not deployed anything at all so far but from the reading I have done it seems Zigbee is a bit flakey.
The only systems that I have found that uses a bus for communication back to a controller is KNX and NMEA 2000.
KNX is complicated, uses proprietary software that is very expensive and needed to configure the system and the devices themselves are VERY expensive - but uber reliable once setup.
NMEA 2000 is a boat system that runs on a Bus network. It has the word boat in it so again very expensive. But it is bus based so reliable.
Is there anything else out there that runs home automation on a bus system ?
NMEA2k is CAN-bus. You can technically run anything CAN-bus related over the same bus, as long as the baud rate is the same (I think it is 250kbaud), it doesn’t have to use the same n2k addressing and framing.
Yep thats right - N2K is canbus. KNX is its own protocol running on a 2 core cable.
The advantage of KNX is that the 2 core cable carries both power and data over the twisted pair.
KNX uses 24v over its twisted pair, so that’s a plus
Huge amount of stuff for KNX available - very pricey. Really pricey actually.
N2K does the same thing but only uses 12v on the bus - thats a negative in my eyes. I dont like 12v.
There is not a lot of stuff out there for N2K other then boat stuff.
Anything N2K is also very expensive.
This thread is VERY interesting if you are also looking for a cable based home automation system.
I am wondering what else is out there, I just came across one called Velbus - but dont know much about it. Never heard of it before so maybe it’s a dead system these days ?
A PLC using Modbus could also do it, but thats getting a bit down in the weeds.
Zigbee is flakey when using the wrong components but most specifically, using the wrong coordinator (zigbee term for the main hub).
Ask me how I know, I have gone through a few different variations. So it is an option, in fact, it is now my favorite option, now that it just-works™
So if you want to look at Zigbee again, let me know and I can give advice, but I see there some options for a bus thrown around here already and it looks like that is the way you want to go.
In my opinion, run more than one system. Not for failover or anything like that, but to open up your options when it comes to adding devices to your home automation system.
If you dont trust zigbee, run the things that is nice to have on it, and run your things that you want 100% reliable on the bus system.
There is a reason why 90% of my sensors for the alarm system, are wired. They just work. The wireless ones cause me endless pain.
I for example run my cameras all on LAN (and actually went as far recently as replacing the only WiFi camera I had with a LAN one using Ethernet-over-powerline for the part that goes underneath my paving) and I’ve connected things like my VenusGX via LAN.
But of course, relays and sensors that use LAN are not the most common place. If you’re of course willing to build relays and sensors yourself - Arduino and RaspberryPi’s are an option.
I’ve bought some of your recommended Zigbee hubs and they’re in my cupboard, ready to load once I get some time. With the idea to replace WiFi Sonoffs eventually.
I should also mention: in my case I don’t think the WiFi isn’t the unreliable part - it is cheap relays and sensors. I throw Sonoffs away because they get old and the WiFi just become less reliable - the whole thing requires a reboot to get back on the network.
Indeed. And if you want to me a member of the association, that’s also a heap of money. And if you are not a member, but you want to look at the specs, that is also a heap of money. The moment you say “boat”, any amount of money can be charged. Also “plane”, but that’s a different topic
I was all go for Zwave/zigbee etc - but after some months of reading and reading I am not so keen on it anymore.
As its always been, cables are far more reliable than anything wireless. The issue I have is that I have complete and total access to walls that have been striped of any type of covering - so its a great chance to pull wires. I do get if everything was intact than wireless looks far more attractive.
So I would really prefer wired. But there is not much of a choice on this. KNX works but has its drawbacks - it HAS to be setup with expensive software and the end devices themselves are quite expensive. But it is a 2 core cable and it is based on 24v - so those are its good points.
Been trying to stay away from N2K but the more I look at this the more I realise this might just be my best bet after all - its no more expensive then KNX.
Still thinking, thinking…. what else is out there ? Seems nothing.
well you know the saying…”If it flies, floats or *u*ks” rent it, dont own it.
I think its the same with many things - if you are into off road - prices are insane for anything “off road”. If it has the word “Marine” in it the prices go up 400%. Aircraft = I would be to scared to ask.
I’ve come across a few ethernet driven lighting systems - all proprietary and rely on the company who came up with the system - if they go under you are in trouble for parts etc in the future.
As its always been, cables are far more reliable than anything wireless. The issue I have is that I have complete and total access to walls that have been striped of any type of covering - so its a great chance to pull wires. I do get if everything was intact than wireless looks far more attractive.
One thing you can definitely do, is at least do LAN ports to all rooms etc while you have the walls open.
Also, enough points for wifi devices. If you have a wifi AP (like the unifi ones) in every room in the house, I 100% guarantee you, your wireless network will be solid. More so than zigbee/zwave etc.
And wifi is going nowhere, so that will always be useful to have on top of lan ports everywhere.
