Look here;
https://szxuba.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2700.wholesale.cordpanyb.2.96e2450fOQBRTr
and…
and, and the list goes on…
What BMS are you looking at?
@TheTerribleTriplet Sorry I haven’t been online since making my proposal.
Looks like we have all your cells accounted for, I’ll take 8, Leon takes 4 and Jaco takes 4.
I am not sure what the time scale is here but when you know you can just give me a indication 
Hello everyone,
I may be able to help a bit with my experience.
Firstly, regarding shipping ( by sea), I had a terrible time trying to source a reliable shipping agent.
I have no experience with shipping agents and contacted several. Some actually emailed me back. Then I was given the run around as far what documentation, tariffs etc would be required from whom. It seemed I could get the batteries to Durban harbour easy enough and relatively cheap.
China would arrange this.
However, through sheer incompetence or corruption, the batteries would then be “held to ransom” at Durban harbour for an amount that depended on the shipping agents whim. It seemed like once the batteries made port everyone wanted a cut, and they couldn’t/wouldn’t say upfront what that cut was. Harbour fees, handling fees, storage fees you name it. Different agents said different things, there was no consistency, and just felt I was setting myself up to be ripped off.
That said if anyone has a reliable, competent shipping agent I am all ears, please PM me.
I made some enquiries as to how others do it, apparently, they register themselves as shipping agents. Which is something I couldn’t do because I am not in South Africa.
So I decided to use airfreight. Yes, the ZA shipping agents had told me batteries had to go by sea and couldn’t be airfreighted. China on the other hand was adamant if their logistics company priced it, their logistics company would do it. They gave me a quote with the INCOterm “DDP” which is unavailable by sea freight.
The INCOterm was direct to door all fees, VAT whatever all paid upfront and this was all arranged in China.
I was sceptical and got various quotes for various numbers of batteries. It was expensive, but there was certainly an economy of scale as the number of batteries increased.
I asked why it was so expensive, a question which was referred to their logistics company, who replied: They had to pay South African officials a large annual fee to smooth over business.
Eventually, I decided to buy just a single 280Ah cell as a test case, mainly because I had been assured it just couldn’t be done by air. However, China was were equally happy to send a whole pallet by air. For a single battery, though the airfreight effectively doubled the price.
The battery was delivered to an address in Northern Natal from China in a week, well-packed, direct to the door, with no extra fees, and no paperwork on my side. It was all handled by the supplier. Absolutely, zero issues and a follow up contact from China to make sure everything was in order.
Many people use this seller: Wan Amy at Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co., Ltd, and I also recommend this Alibaba supplier. I even got a short video of the item packed at the China end before it was sent.
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Now THIS is what we are still investigating …cause all is fine with the batt price, the import/delivery the tricky expensive part.
What I liked by air was “instant” and all sorted, what I didn’t was the high price.
On the other hand, when I eventually buy, I am going for a big bank probably multiple banks of 18S, (Yes 18s) so I could probably count on a shipping cost of about 50% of battery price going by the quotes I received at the time.
I got the feeling that whilst shipping by sea was much cheaper, once you add VAT and the other hidden fees you’d probably be up to 25 to 30% anyway, plus several months wait.
So a bulk buy is the way to go by air anyway.
I just don’t like the idea of having a 100K of batteries tied up at a port and be at the mercy of some agent. Believe me, they were quoting tariffs, harbour fees depending on shipping line, letters that had to be sought from trade institutions, import amounts limitations and applications, licences, you name it.
Unless I can find a decent sea shipping agent, I’ll be getting mine by air, life is just too short.
@Phil.g00, you got lucky!! I spoke to her, and its by sea only. I started chatting to her, because she is highly recommended by in DIYSolar.
BUT, not all is lost. I will ask het about the INCOterm.
Thanks for the headsup.
You are 100% correct. i dont like R100K out on sea… aaaaand, then it get stuck!!
@neliuszeeman,
That’s an unfortunate development if that’s the case.
All I can say is there is an opening for a ZA shipping agent specializing in LPO batteries.
I just got the feeling that an inexperienced importer with a high value is seen as a mark.
Lithium batteries can go by air - but only on dedicated air freight flights (no passengers), and only up to 35kg per package. But you still need a competent cargo handler - you need to kill half a forest for the amount of paperwork for dangerous goods transport and storage…
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Two weeks. Well, perhaps not when a ship is stuck in an important channel somewhere backing up everything, or COVID closes factories which backs up everything, but normally it takes about two weeks for a ship to get anywhere, possibly depending on how many times it has to stop.
The two times I imported batteries, it was done by a company called Freitan. The actual shipping company was MSC. I used another agent called “Altitude Freight” to get it off Freitan, do the paperwork, and arrange delivery. My employer arranged the actual shipping, I just had to appoint a local agent to do the last leg. I must say I am glad I didn’t have to arrange all of that… much better when someone who knows this business does it for you.
Regarding air-freight: I believe it only becomes an issue beyond a certain energy value. Small batteries can be air-freighted. Very big ones cannot. I have no idea where the tip-over point is.
@plonkster, as I said my personal experience, is by air, but I did do my research and the mean (per internet posts) for Europe and the states was around two months by sea.
My battery was an Eve 280Ah cell about 5kg ish.
Two to a box and thirty boxes on a pallet if I recall correctly.
Jip, we get the same replies if one goes via sea.
About R1000 more per cell if done via air, then it is ±2weeks.
Asking one of my clients about insurance too, from China to my door.
@TheTerribleTriplet I am not sure, but I think the inco term DDP is sellers risk until delivered.
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My broker answered this morning:
"Dear TTT
Your policy can be extended to include the Import of Lithium Batteries and would need the maximum value of any one such import, in order to obtain a quote from your insurers.*
Kind regards*"
Will make sure of all the T&C’s and all that … once I see what it could cost per battery.
FWIW, I use the same policy to ship Victron equipment countrywide cause me driving trucks as a hobby, I saw the risks. Would be bad mojo if Victron parts get stolen en route.
As luck would have it, my son bought an R7k phone from RuggedSA a week ago, en route to be delivered at our house the courier bakkie was hijacked. Thank snot he opted for insurance in his delivery, the new phone was delivered the very next day.
Compliments of Google:
Incoterms, a widely-used terms of sale, are a set of 11 internationally recognized rules which define the responsibilities of sellers and buyers. Incoterms specifies who is responsible for paying for and managing the shipment, insurance, documentation, customs clearance, and other logistical activities.
DDP – Delivered Duty Paid
The seller bears the costs and risks of transport, carries out the export and import responsibilities and pays any import duties. As soon as the goods have arrived at the address and are ready for unloading, the risk passes to the buyer.
I only once vaguely dealt with that. It was for the shipping of citrus. The rules for that was that the responsibility passes from the seller to the shipping company when the pallet(s) go “across the rail”, ie when the crane lifts it from the Quayside onto the ship. The electronic solution I was working on had the advantage that there was a time stamp indicating the moment the pallet was deposited on the quayside by the forklift (courtesy of long-range RFID). Additional “scanners” could be installed to more closely track where a product is, and could in theory be used to determine where the product was when the cold-chain was broken.
Or in short, it is always better if you can blame the other guy’s insurance company 
There are all sorts of INCO terms:
You obviously didn’t use “DDP” probably “FAS”, by the sounds of things.
The seven Incoterms® 2020 rules for any mode(s) of transport are:
EXW - Ex Works (insert place of delivery)
FCA - Free Carrier (Insert named place of delivery)
CPT - Carriage Paid to (insert place of destination)
CIP - Carriage and Insurance Paid To (insert place of destination)
DAP - Delivered at Place (insert named place of destination)
DPU - Delivered at Place Unloaded (insert of place of destination)
DDP - Delivered Duty Paid (Insert place of destination).
Note: the DPU Incoterms replaces the old DAT, with additional requirement for the seller to unload the goods from the arriving means of transport.
The four Incoterms® 2020 rules for Sea and Inland Waterway Transport are:
FAS - Free Alongside Ship (insert name of port of loading)
FOB - Free on Board (insert named port of loading)
CFR - Cost and Freight (insert named port of destination)
CIF - Cost Insurance and Freight (insert named port of destination)For when you don’t have a forklift…
One day a truck delivered a heavy crate at my house. Truck did not have a hoist. I did not have a forklift (why would I?). We slid the crate down on an aluminium ladder. The ladder still has a dent in it…
Before I Google I would talk to a broker who deals with the intricacies of international freight, with the insurer probably being Loyd’s of London if I’m not mistaken.
I will report back here once I know more of how and what and where MY risks lie ito international freight - to my door.
Truth be told, if it was not for ±104 cells I would not have bothered.
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